tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post2112003636597545652..comments2023-10-28T12:01:47.929+00:00Comments on Edward Lucas: EstoniaEdward Lucashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11369936559712607693noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-75651809243629162542007-05-22T05:12:00.000+00:002007-05-22T05:12:00.000+00:00AdditionIt is perhaps a good occassion to make a f...Addition<BR/><BR/>It is perhaps a good occassion to make a following remark:<BR/>every time I get snapped at over here - four or five times, as I recall, in ca. a year of my posting - has a striking similarity to the ones before it in that they are devoid of any argument (or counter-argument) whatsoever. What they are full of is creeping hostility thinly disguised in bigotted concerns either about my alleged un-cultured attitude (never specific, but far-reaching - as far as calling me a bum, for example) or outright questioning of my sanity or decency (paranoia/conspiratory theory,sheer unfriendliness.)Now, let me tell you why I say it is nothing but hostility.<BR/>It is so, because all of the instances I have mentioned are from the onset directed at downgrading my position in a discourse and betray total lack of interest in my explanations - I call such activity 'a contacticide'.<BR/>Persons, such as the ojne above, never listen to what I have to say about my reasons, neither are they interested in my argumentation. They never ever produce a single specific instance of wwhat they so firmly denounce - they prefer to start with the desert of indignant conclusions and they stay at that. <BR/>Interestingly enough, these names (except for one, perhaps) pop up on my occasion - they never showed up before and never come back disapearing in the moment when it gets to concrete or when proven wrong.<BR/>I am saying this as a mere observation as I really don't give a F#@*&k - I'll keep doing what I am doing i.e monitoring the excessive crap whether it is about Poland or Estonia or anything else that I have the notion about (don't expect my voice on Zimbabwe for example)- regardless of how many absurd accusations are thrown my way. The difference between my being sometimes hard on Mr.E.L and , say, Valerie calling me what she has is that I can produce substance behind it with detailed reference to specific instances - they fear facts as the devil fears hollywaterUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767136176012127626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-14538079863346013212007-05-21T23:46:00.000+00:002007-05-21T23:46:00.000+00:00...another dimwit mistakes her ignorance and inadv......another dimwit mistakes her ignorance and inadvertent reading for my 'excess' and what-not. <BR/>Clearly, you have not a slightest idea what I was talking about and I won't waste a second on shedding light onto your darkness, although it would be generally advisible for you to scratch the surface of whatever you might be commenting upon and learn about facts before you snap. Then it will certainly be easier for you to see the motivations.Meanwhile, it is you that is hostile toward me for no reason; neither do I know you,nor you me so its an insult for insult's sake. You butt in the middle of something that has been on for a year and bravely jump to conclusion, while I had every reason for saying what I have said to Mr E.LUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767136176012127626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-52614140863871642912007-05-21T03:01:00.000+00:002007-05-21T03:01:00.000+00:00A brief addition:As concerns to Kuba, I DO have a ...A brief addition:<BR/><BR/>As concerns to Kuba, I DO have a conspiracy theory. With his excessively unfriendly, unmotivated remarks he seeks to sow hostility. We shouldn't pay attention to him: most probably he is just another Putin's guy. That's his job.<BR/><BR/>ValeriAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17420738615306277242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-7664323731264063772007-05-21T01:49:00.000+00:002007-05-21T01:49:00.000+00:00Dear Edward,Please receive my cheers and best wish...Dear Edward,<BR/><BR/>Please receive my cheers and best wishes,<BR/><BR/>Of course I disagree with Kuba's bitter conspiracy theories. Still I think that your piece was too emotional and too hastily written. For example, I strongly disagree with your suggestion that there was some 'cynicism' in removing a rude, inappropriate and insulting monument to occupation from the centre of the capital city of an independent country. I have always called it not the Bronze Soldier but the Iron Blockhead (zheleznyi bolvan in Russian, or raudtola in Estonian) and wondered why our governments left it standing there for so long. We ought to smash it into pieces in 1990s along with Lenin's statues. Maybe there were some reasons for politcorrectness but I have not heard of such.<BR/><BR/>Indeed, taking Ansip's political record, it was a surprise to see him removing the monument. He collaborated with communists and later with Savisaar; he repeatedly cornered Pro Patria and supported the Centre Party. When guys like that make honest gestures I tend to become suspicious and start looking for sinister reasons.<BR/><BR/>However, in this case the Occam's razor suggests a much simpler explanation: Ansip might have merely been compelled to do what the nation wanted to be done but doing this in a bad way, at a wrong time and with possibly evil consequences (e.g., making Edward Lucas call the removal of the Iron Blockhead cynical). Most likely, Ansip was simply forced into it by the mounting information about Moscow's preparations for massive provocations. We have been watching this: with each year, more and more red flags appeared at the Iron Blockhead in May, more and more Russian fascists dressed in the Soviet Army's uniforms made a show of standing there in theatrical postures, etcetera.<BR/><BR/>Therefore I believe that the haste and the wrong timing were thrust on Ansip by Moscow's actions. We know that Putin needs such things like permanent local wars, hostilities with neighbours, frictions with the West, and the Great-Russian nationalist hysteria. We watch him damaging relations with his neighbours one by one (the enemy of the month, as Russian journalists have stamped it). He needs all this to pave way for his third term in office -- or, anyway, for prolonging the rule of the KGB in Russia.<BR/><BR/>You ought to have pondered on this when writing.<BR/><BR/>Yours,<BR/>Valeri KalabuginAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17420738615306277242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-78011316002744900792007-03-09T16:29:00.000+00:002007-03-09T16:29:00.000+00:00and although still untrue in itself - it would hav...and although still untrue in itself - it would have been a lot more honest;<BR/>and no I do not trust the writer and thankfully - neither do I have to, as I <B>know</B> it is complete and utter @#!%^!<BR/><BR/>ps funny, how you always hide behind the Economist whenever things get too tight...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767136176012127626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-63691334434884325972007-03-09T12:42:00.000+00:002007-03-09T12:42:00.000+00:00Hi KubaLike I said, it's a free country. That's th...Hi Kuba<BR/><BR/>Like I said, it's a free country. That's the way the Economist works. We do not practise American-style attribution. That makes the pieces snappier to read, but you have to trust the writer. Clearly you don't, but I suggest you read the NYT, WSJ or some other American paper instead. They would have written the story saying something on the lines of "current and former intelligence and government officials in Warsaw and elsewhere, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the nature of the subject, say that..." <BR/><BR/>regards<BR/>EdwardEdward Lucashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11369936559712607693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-31564356695398332932007-03-09T12:07:00.000+00:002007-03-09T12:07:00.000+00:00Just as I thought...excellent sources that cannot ...Just as I thought...excellent sources that cannot be revealed...you still believe it to be true...other people ...have told you that you got it right. - this is your idea of substance to back serious accusations.. I rest my case.<BR/><BR/>Let me just point out that in your article you wrote:"Mr.M <B>has</B> turned etc." and not "<B>I believe it to be true</B> Mr. M. has etc" and you failed to mention that your belief in this respect is firmly based on assurances from other people that you got it right...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767136176012127626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-29132359367466676072007-03-09T08:46:00.000+00:002007-03-09T08:46:00.000+00:00Hi KubaI did write that. I have excellent sources ...Hi Kuba<BR/><BR/>I did write that. I have excellent sources for it that for obvious reasons I will not discuss publicly. I still believe it to be true, not least because other people in Warsaw have told me that I got it right. <BR/><BR/>regards<BR/>EdwardEdward Lucashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11369936559712607693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-5436927918141400132007-03-08T17:34:00.000+00:002007-03-08T17:34:00.000+00:00"Your accusations that I represent a monstrous con..."Your accusations that I represent a monstrous conspiracy against the ex-communist countries is a serious one and deserves precise factual support, not endless wordy generalisations."<BR/>You've said that! I never formulated it that way, I just would like to turn attention to how and what you write - I have been observing it for a year now and I see a consistent pattern; one thing to say about it is that you throw mud in your widely-published writing and then use your blog to diffuse the onslaught of criticism by weasling your way out of the most outrageous assumptions or diluting them with your assurances of highest regard for the people you slandered and respect for the causes you distorted. You want to talk about factual support? Ok. Let's go one at a time. Give me factual support to this:<BR/> "Mr. Macierewicz* has turned the military intelligence in Poland into a private spying service for the Kaczynskis**"<BR/>*former dissident, now the head of the military intelligence <BR/>**The President and the Prime Minister of Poland<BR/><B>Did you or did you not write the above and what FACTUAL support can you give to back it?</B>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767136176012127626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-18099271562375995582007-03-08T17:06:00.000+00:002007-03-08T17:06:00.000+00:00It's funny you call Savisaar "brooding". Most peop...It's funny you call Savisaar "brooding". Most people here seem to think he resembles Benny Hill.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-69721975012759542462007-03-08T14:17:00.000+00:002007-03-08T14:17:00.000+00:00We will see, if Ansip was just b**lsh****ng with A...We will see, if Ansip was just b**lsh****ng with Aljosha or was he serious. Take it easy, fellow estonians - better ask yourself, where's the progress? Free wifi zones are not innovation, we'd need something else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-47040746478556444382007-03-08T09:45:00.000+00:002007-03-08T09:45:00.000+00:00Hi Kristjanthanks for your comments. As you'll kno...Hi Kristjan<BR/><BR/>thanks for your comments. As you'll know, I'm normally a strong defender of Estonia in spats with Russia. But I do think it is important to pick fights carefully, and not to isolate the country on peripheral issues. Sometimes--as with the language and citizenship laws--the issue is so important that it is necessary to press ahead even without international support. But on the Bronze soldier, I feel that the issue was cooked up by Ansip who wanted to steal some votes from Isamaaliit. Reform has never cared much about these issues in the past.<BR/><BR/>The article does sound rather odd in its reference to the new govt, which is because it was originally written as a curtain-raiser to run over the election weekend, not as a results analysis. The paragraph about the results was stitched in at the last minute and on reflection I would have included more material about the possibility of a coalition excluding the Keskerakond. <BR/><BR/>I can see that read in the days after the election this would look a bit unbalanced, but that's just a quirk of internet-age journalism.<BR/><BR/>I thought Ilves's speech was rather good and my original draft included a rather longer quote from it. He has also dealt with the Bronze Soldier issue in more depth in previous speeches, rather well I think.<BR/><BR/>Ansip is certainly not the worst prime minister Estonia has had, but in the last government his overwhelming aim was to keep the coalition together, rather than to innovate. Estonia has to run to keep up, and recently it has been losing its edge: sad, but true.<BR/><BR/>regards<BR/>EdwardEdward Lucashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11369936559712607693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-32008245052763869022007-03-07T18:13:00.000+00:002007-03-07T18:13:00.000+00:00Dear Edward,As I already mentioned in Estonian, I ...Dear Edward,<BR/><BR/>As I already mentioned in Estonian, I have to confess that Kuba's words strike an unpleasant chord with me. To be honest, it seems quite bizarre to me that you would write as you do about the Bronze Soldier. <BR/><BR/>More specifically, you seem to imply in your published text that Ansip invented the problem out of nothing to gain popularity, you seem to misrepresent the essence of Ilves's veto on the "Law on Forbidden Erections" a little, and you quote from Ilves's Independence Day speech, which was rather dull and didn't really deal with the statue. <BR/><BR/>You also draw a surprisingly pessimistic and strange conclusion about our government being among those not committed to reforms, when, of course, you know that the composition of our new government is unknown just after the elections, at the time of writing.<BR/><BR/>It all seems strange to me because I know how well-informed you are of Estonian affairs, and I know that you are a friend of Estonia, as I said.<BR/><BR/>Please comment.<BR/><BR/>Kristjan<BR/><BR/>PS. There is a small mistake right at the beginning of your article - the election day was Sunday March 4, not March 3.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-22620721703227437382007-03-07T17:22:00.000+00:002007-03-07T17:22:00.000+00:00Thanks for that Lauri. Good question about Elmar S...Thanks for that Lauri. Good question about Elmar Sepp. Maybe the changing winds in Estonia are blowing his fortunes, political and otherwise, elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>Kuba: you are welcome to post what you like but I think it will improve the argument if you are a) brief and b) specific. Your accusations that I represent a monstrous conspiracy against the ex-communist countries is a serious one and deserves precise factual support, not endless wordy generalisations.<BR/><BR/>I am glad you too are a free-market atlanticist and long-time Economist reader. <BR/><BR/>cheers<BR/><BR/>EdwardEdward Lucashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11369936559712607693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-9551341603084704912007-03-07T16:39:00.000+00:002007-03-07T16:39:00.000+00:00The article is correct - about lack of innovation,...The article is correct - about lack of innovation, about corruption. Fortunately, I hope, it's gonna decrease with Kesk's loss. Where's Elmar Sepp BTW?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-90535656722121419922007-03-07T16:09:00.000+00:002007-03-07T16:09:00.000+00:00"PS Kuba--it's a free country. You you don't like ..."PS Kuba--it's a free country. You you don't like the Economist worldview (freemarket, atlanticist) or our tone (superior/condescending). Fine. Go read something else."<BR/> I AM ATLANTICIST to the core and I am pro-market, the latter of which I do not even consider a worldview; just as some laws of physics or mathematical principles are not a worldview but the foundation of basic sanity - this is not what I have problems with! <BR/><BR/>I had been an enthusiastic Economist reader for over ten years and within that period Poland was commented upon many times and different facets of political life were discussed. I agreed or disagreed, had minor objections - but it never even crossed my mind to go public with them - everything was within limits of honest and descent journalism. <BR/><BR/>It had been so until I read your survey on Poland (March 2006)which was not only full of minor inaccuracies in facts, embarassingly shallow analyses - that would not have stirred my reaction - but its 'theses' were based on deliberate manipulation of truth and information distorted beyond recognition into simple lies! You than topped it off with a derisive, sneering mock-conclusion with a wink of an eye to the rest of the world on those prickly and backward Poles! It is hard to discuss anything when you get offended at the start!<BR/><BR/>Issue that I have, then, is personally with YOU as in the long correspondence you have rejected every occasion to correct it, providing 'it-is-so-because-I-think -so' answers, proving your arrogance and cynicim which cannot be hidden beyond The Economists style. <BR/>Moreover, you continue this low techniques, as in your recent text in which you publicized what you call your 'views' distorting current reforms of secret services in Poland and which, again was nothing but a pack of impudent black lies proliferated in broad daylight; then, again, you go into denial, as is usually the case with your type of offenders. <BR/> <BR/><B>to every-one that may read it</B>:<BR/>It is is not the matter of worldview differences! Imagine: when you find out that one of the people you barely know goes around your circle of friends and even visits complete strangers to spread slanderous lies that you are a paedophile with no proof, would you say that it is a matter of different worldviews?...<BR/><BR/>So, no, Edward, I don't think I'll go away - I think I'll stay.<BR/><BR/>To Estonian friends on this site: please, look closer who you are actually dealing with ...for a start, take a step back, read the article itself once again, forget all that has been said in the posts and try to imagine you are a foreigner from, say, France and all you know about Estonia is what E.L is giving you - than you may apply the same procedure to each and every text on any CE country and you might see whose purposes it fits best, complete it with the article on the alleged antiAmerican ism in this part of Europe and tell me if you would call the man behind an atlanticist.... <BR/><BR/>I am not personally motivated - my views on this or that do not matter - I have not revealed them even once since I write here - I act out of conviction that given the raw geo-politics and the range of E.L's reception - his act must be revealed for the sake of our regionUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767136176012127626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-49092355501696903362007-03-07T15:03:00.000+00:002007-03-07T15:03:00.000+00:00suur aitäh, kallid eestlased. Aga palun kirjutada ...suur aitäh, kallid eestlased. Aga palun kirjutada inglise keeles. <BR/><BR/>(Govarite po chelovyecheski, pazhaluista!)Edward Lucashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11369936559712607693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-920823188433767752007-03-07T13:58:00.000+00:002007-03-07T13:58:00.000+00:00Jaa, nõus! Samuti ei tee paha korruptsioonist rääk...Jaa, nõus! Samuti ei tee paha korruptsioonist rääkimine - on siis seda tegelikult rohkem või mitte. <BR/><BR/>Ma mõtlesin seda Pronkssõdurit puudutavat teksti - see läks minu meelest veidi aia taha.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-32174331069949517202007-03-07T13:36:00.000+00:002007-03-07T13:36:00.000+00:00Ma arvan, et see on tegelikult tervislik Eestile k...Ma arvan, et see on tegelikult tervislik Eestile kui me räägime kooli reformist ja muust. See positiivne kriitika on ka hea. See oleks jama kui iga artikkel eestist on positiivne.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-87400414505699600032007-03-07T12:48:00.000+00:002007-03-07T12:48:00.000+00:00Ulrika,Eks üldiselt teavad kõik, et Edward on Eest...Ulrika,<BR/><BR/>Eks üldiselt teavad kõik, et Edward on Eesti sõber, aga see viimane artikkel, mida me siin kommenteerime, ei ole ehk tõesti kõige õnnestunum. Teatud määral tuleb nõustuda isegi Kubaga, et see meenutab rohkem programmilist ärapanemist, kui tõsist ajakirjanust.<BR/><BR/>Lisaks hindab lugupeetud ajakirjanik minu arvates Ansipit natuke liiga madalalt ja Laari natuke liiga kõrgelt. Ilvest aga, õnneks, täiesti parajalt. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-37428355303437402612007-03-07T12:39:00.000+00:002007-03-07T12:39:00.000+00:00Olen Edwardi kolleeg The Economistist ja pean ütle...Olen Edwardi kolleeg The Economistist ja pean ütlema, et keegi teine lääne ajakirjanikest ei anna sama head, positiivset ja erapooletut ülevaadet Eestist kui tema.Ulrikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554947106522251791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-24951589586582608032007-03-07T11:38:00.000+00:002007-03-07T11:38:00.000+00:00Giustino,I do understand you better now, and I kno...Giustino,<BR/><BR/>I do understand you better now, and I know that your view is held by many moderate people in Estonia, including my mother. :) <BR/><BR/>But I want it gone. Why should we have such a depressing array of monuments in the centre of Tallinn? What good can come from reminding people on a daily basis that their history is sad and full of lost conflicts? The memorial for all the people the NKVD snuffed should be in Moscow, not Tallinn. Like there is the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin.<BR/><BR/>Should it be our problem that Russia is unable to deal with its past? I think not. Ilves is, of course, right in that moving the monument does not solve the underlying problem, but on the other hand, it would give a clear message that there is no place for Soviets in the modern Estonian Republic. I think it is important to get that message through to the Russian-speaking youth in Estonia, for the sake of a better future for all.<BR/><BR/>Kristjan<BR/><BR/>PS. I guess Kristel was right.. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-36967658974259309302007-03-07T10:46:00.000+00:002007-03-07T10:46:00.000+00:00Kristjan,I use the term "tear down" in a figurativ...Kristjan,<BR/><BR/>I use the term "tear down" in a figurative way. I don't mean it like they are just going to demolish it and dump it in Tallinn harbor. I know that they want to move it to a cemetery. Sorry if that wasn't clear. <BR/><BR/>But I think Ansip was a bit too hasty in reaching his decision. He's the prime minister, not the man on the street. When I saw footage of the scuffles at the monument last May, I similarly wanted that sucker out of there.<BR/><BR/>Right now, I'm more inclined to support putting a new memorial to the Estonian founding fathers that were snuffed out by the NKVD in 1940-41 near the site. <BR/><BR/>Building something new seems preferable to tearing down something old.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-72273128608820201312007-03-07T10:06:00.000+00:002007-03-07T10:06:00.000+00:00Giustino,Please note that the government has shown...Giustino,<BR/><BR/>Please note that the government has shown no initiative to tear down the monument -- the idea is to move it away from the centre of Tallinn to somewhere in the town's outskirts.<BR/><BR/>KristjanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24528000.post-72918944698159603882007-03-07T09:02:00.000+00:002007-03-07T09:02:00.000+00:00Hi Edward,Though you briefly touched on it, the co...Hi Edward,<BR/><BR/>Though you briefly touched on it, the country is in real need of some pragmatic reforms. If you had stretched out the sixth paragraph a bit more - where you called the state-run school system 'ossified' - it would have been of great benefit, though I realize you have spatial constraints.<BR/><BR/>I have to say that one of the reasons why I have sort of fallen out of love with the Estonian rightwing has been its obsession with history, and, especially, trying to legislate history via sense resolutions - declaring certain days days of mourning, declaring certain soldiers to be freedom fighters.<BR/><BR/>That seems like it is more of a job for historians than politicians. Politicians should be more involved in things like school reform, rather than legislating the past. <BR/><BR/>Ilves is right that the "problem" of the Soviet monument is not the monument itself - it's just a war monument, afterall, there are many scattered across Estonia. The problem is that there is a certain segment of the population that lives in a total bubble. They read only Russian state-informed news media. They think that Reformierakond is "fascist organization" (to quote from one lady interviewed on ETV the other night). <BR/><BR/>Living in Estonia you'd have to think that they are totally nuts. <BR/><BR/>What Ansip, I guess, is trying to do is burst that bubble. But Ilves is saying that there are different ways to approach doing it. Ansip wants to yank down their totem pole. Ilves wants them to read more.<BR/><BR/>NOW, considering the Soviets yanked down all of the Estonian republic's monuments in the years following World War II, and yet the republic survived, underground - flags hidden away in barns, monuments hidden in the countryside - perhaps the "tear down the monument" strategy is a flawed one.<BR/><BR/>Maybe wider access to information is the solution here. I think that in approaching this situation, it's best to have multiple viewpoints rather than the "us versus you" perspective. Which is why an informed historical debate is probably the better vehicle for dealing with this situation, as opposed to the idea that removing a Soviet memorial will immediately solve the problem.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.com