* Anatole Kaletsky: Associate Editor of The Times * Professor Norman Stone: Professor of International Relations and Director of the Russian Centre at Bilkent University, Ankara. * Alexei Pushkov: Anchor of the most popular Russian TV programme “Post Scriptum” which has considerable influence on Russian public perception of international events.
Speakers against the motion:
* Edward Lucas: Central and Eastern Europe correspondent for the The Economist and author of The New Cold War: How the Kremlin Menaces Both Russia and the West (2008).
* Dr Lilia Shevtsova: Senior Associate of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (Washington).
* Ron Asmus, German Marshall Fund of the United States
"dzicz" stands for a place inhabited by wild tribes and "trzesidupy" are those who shake their bottoms, in other words, cowards. I am Polish and pretty much share this point of view. No offence, of course.
I'm from Romania and i think the author is a fool with no brain. Why Romania=Cyganie? Are we Romanians gypsies from India? No, we are a mix of romans and ancient dacians. Poles were a tribe at that time. Does he know that France,Italy,Romania,Moldova, Spain and Portugal are latin countries with very close languages? The author knows nothing about our history. Romanians are close relatives to Italians not with the slavic(slave) peasants, like poles.
No offence, but that is the first thought many Poles think about Romanians - the Gypsy beggars(Roma) who appeared in Poland after 1990 and stayed there (on the streets).
Ok. More detailed comment (I'm notsure if the fist one went through, though).
There are numerous references to history and some to literature. Intriguing that (Cezary) Baryka appears in Azerbaijan (reference to 'Przedwiośnie' by Stefan Żeromski about war, revolution and early years of poland after 1918) - probably because of the movie which means that the map might be quite old. Man character of the novel was living in Baku in a family of a wealthy industrialist who built his fortune on oil.
PRL for Bulgaria - because of the summer holidays in Bulgaria which were a luxory those days.
Gulash in Hungary. That is a bit disappointed since on a 'Hungarian map' Poland is described with word 'brothers'.
Corsica with napoleon - pretty obvious considering the anthem of Poland and history. Long history of napoleonic ethusiasm is also something which inspired it.
Olsen's gand in Denmark. I would choose the same. The series of movies about unlucky gangsters had a cult status.
Reference to 'ours' Lithuania (whole?) and Ukraine (shared with Russia) seem slightly outdated but also quite true. many Poles visit those countries only to see Lvov or Vilnius. Or more, especially in Ukraine with the entire mythology of wild steppes, Cossacks, Tartars, husaria , Mr. Wołodyjowski etc.
Mrs Stanisława in Kazakhstan is again pretty obvious, but also quite witty. Very smart and short way to describe the fates of many Poles re-settled to Asia.
'Our guys' in Israel is also pretty clever. Reminds me about the jokes in 1967-68 when Israeli victories were seen us victories of our Jews against 'their' (you know whom) Arabs. Aslo in the past (because emigration of Russian jews) it was another country where you could easily communicated in Polish.
The rest more or less seems right - when it comes to most basic perception of some countries at least.
Is it just me - but isn't propagating any type of national stereotype dangerous? Yes, I know it is meant to be amusing but anything that subjugates millions of individuals to a slogan or type as these maps do makes me vaguely uneasy.
This site is no longer active. Please go to edwardlucas.com/blog instead
Regards
Edward
Bene Merito award
Without my foreknowledge, I was last year awarded the Bene Merito medal of the Polish Foreign Ministry. Although enormously honoured by this, I have sadly decided that I cannot accept it as it might give rise to at least the appearance of a conflict of interest in my coverage of Poland.
"The New Cold War", first published in February 2008, is now available in a revised and updated edition with a foreword by Norman Davies. It has been translated into more than 15 foreign languages.
I am married to Cristina Odone and have three children. Johnny (1993, Estonia) Hugo (1995, Vienna) and Isabel (2003, London)
13 comments:
Hilarious! I don't read Polish but being Czech, can often guess. However, could you please tell me what "dzicz" means? Also, "trzesidupy". Thanks!
Hi Katerina,
"dzicz" stands for a place inhabited by wild tribes and "trzesidupy" are those who shake their bottoms, in other words, cowards. I am Polish and pretty much share this point of view. No offence, of course.
Regards
Marcin
Hahaha, how true. Who's the map maker?
Can somebody translate the two entries for Ukraine, as well as those for Spain and Portugal?
I'm from Romania and i think the author is a fool with no brain. Why Romania=Cyganie? Are we Romanians gypsies from India?
No, we are a mix of romans and ancient dacians. Poles were a tribe at that time.
Does he know that France,Italy,Romania,Moldova, Spain and Portugal are latin countries with very close languages?
The author knows nothing about our history. Romanians are close relatives to Italians not with the slavic(slave) peasants, like poles.
Have a sense of humour, Alex! This is a joke on how Poles think, not a serious reflection on the countries involved.
Here's another one, from Lithuania 3 :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUgqXGu_gTQ
Bonzoq,
Are you joking or are you serious? This is a joke so it's not really flattering if Poles really would have this image of Europe.
@Alex
No offence, but that is the first thought many Poles think about Romanians - the Gypsy beggars(Roma) who appeared in Poland after 1990 and stayed there (on the streets).
Here is Europe according to Hungarians
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/cegorach/europe_according_to_hungarians.jpg
In my opinion one of most autoironic maps and doesn't appear to offend anybody.
Ok. More detailed comment (I'm notsure if the fist one went through, though).
There are numerous references to history and some to literature.
Intriguing that (Cezary) Baryka appears in Azerbaijan (reference to 'Przedwiośnie' by Stefan Żeromski about war, revolution and early years of poland after 1918) - probably because of the movie which means that the map might be quite old. Man character of the novel was living in Baku in a family of a wealthy industrialist who built his fortune on oil.
PRL for Bulgaria - because of the summer holidays in Bulgaria which were a luxory those days.
Gulash in Hungary. That is a bit disappointed since on a 'Hungarian map' Poland is described with word 'brothers'.
Corsica with napoleon - pretty obvious considering the anthem of Poland and history. Long history of napoleonic ethusiasm is also something which inspired it.
Olsen's gand in Denmark. I would choose the same. The series of movies about unlucky gangsters had a cult status.
Reference to 'ours' Lithuania (whole?) and Ukraine (shared with Russia) seem slightly outdated but also quite true. many Poles visit those countries only to see Lvov or Vilnius. Or more, especially in Ukraine with the entire mythology of wild steppes, Cossacks, Tartars, husaria , Mr. Wołodyjowski etc.
Mrs Stanisława in Kazakhstan is again pretty obvious, but also quite witty. Very smart and short way to describe the fates of many Poles re-settled to Asia.
'Our guys' in Israel is also pretty clever. Reminds me about the jokes in 1967-68 when Israeli victories were seen us victories of our Jews against 'their' (you know whom) Arabs.
Aslo in the past (because emigration of Russian jews) it was another country where you could easily communicated in Polish.
The rest more or less seems right - when it comes to most basic perception of some countries at least.
Is it just me - but isn't propagating any type of national stereotype dangerous? Yes, I know it is meant to be amusing but anything that subjugates millions of individuals to a slogan or type as these maps do makes me vaguely uneasy.
Oh for god's sake have a sense of humor, everybody. This whole thing is poking fun at national stereotypes, not promoting them.
And yes, Scott, it IS you.
Fine, it IS just me then. Very pleased to be an individual and not a stereotype. :)
I would Put "Stalin" instead of "Katyn" otherwise perfect ;)
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